Why did I go so long??? My friend kept raving about his Black Bibs winter kit, so I finally broke down and bought these for myself. Now I feel like a fool for not buying them sooner. Sooo comfy, just the right weight to wear by themselves or under MTB pants if it's getting sloppy. Soft and cozy on the inside, great chamois. If you're looking at this listing, stop debating and just buy them already!